This is something I never thought I’d say: I have a clairvoyant friend. Some of you may already be aware of Amy or, as she calls herself, The Closet Clairvoyant from our work on the Making A Murderer case. She is a wonderful person with some pretty incredible gifts—gifts that I, a former skeptic, have experienced firsthand. Together, we have decided to start a new project: speaking with celebrities who are on the other side. Whether you believe this to be real or not, please read on knowing that we are not in the business of fooling anyone. We are simply sharing our experience, and whether you decide to believe it, well … that’s entirely up to you.
Welcome to Conversations With Dead People.
Our first subject is very dear to my heart. Since about 2008 I developed a fascination with America’s blonde bombshell, Hollywood actress Marilyn Monroe. I had stopped by my favorite used bookstore looking for something to read and stumbled upon Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates. I’d never been a Marilyn fan but I liked Joyce Carol Oates a lot and thought it sounded interesting.
Once I read it, I was hooked. Now, Blonde is very much historical fiction, but it made me want to know more about Norma Jeane Baker. I immediately felt an odd sort of kinship with her—and not the type where I wanted to share falsified quotes of hers on Facebook or get a tattoo of her face or anything. It was a strange, deep sort of connection. So over the years I did research on her, watched her filmography, studied everything. I had a “Chardonnay and Marilyn Night” once a week for a period of time in 2012. The more I learned, the more I loved her.
So I guess that’s a pretty long-winded way of saying I had Marilyn on my mind when I threw this idea out to Amy. We’ve worked together in the past and have done many readings, but nothing quite like this. Nothing like contacting a beloved icon of the past. But Marilyn, well … she just felt right.
Amy agreed. And so one sunny Friday afternoon, we sat down together on Skype after some preparation (on both our parts) and reached out to her.
Amy began by focusing hard. She closed her eyes and appeared so still for several minutes I was almost afraid we’d lost our connection. Then she opened her eyes, smiled, and said, “Are you ready?”
Amy: I feel her very strongly right now, so if I start acting strange just … go with it.
Me: (laughing) Okay.
Amy: I feel her really trying … it’s hard to explain it, it’s the weirdest feeling. Like my head just keeps expanding, getting bigger and bigger. And everything slows down. She starts in my back, I feel it in my back so I’m … trying to just allow her to do it.
Amy: But she’s here.
I note that we had been chatting for about 15 minutes before we got started with no issues but as soon as she opened her eyes, my screen began to jitter and jump. She agrees and tells me Marilyn was a very strong spirit. I ask if that had anything to do with the fact that she’s been “kept alive” for so long, so adored and in the forefront of people’s minds. Amy agrees and says that has a lot to do with energy—from what I’ve learned, all of this stuff does—and with so much energy devoted towards her, she has a lot of strength.
Me: In just this room, I’ve got a calendar, a vintage ad, a photo, a photo, a photo, and in the other room a photo—and in the bedroom (laughing) a photo.
Amy: She knows how much you love her. She’s telling me that right now. She’s well aware of your love and she’s happy about it.
I explain that some of my other articles about her had gone viral and that was one of the reasons Marilyn had been on my mind, specifically the one about the tragic aspects of her life. Amy says she knew little about Marilyn and definitely wasn’t aware of the tragedies she’d experienced. I begin to get into things and Amy stops me right away—she never wants me to give her information as it taints the read.
Amy: That’s something that I got yesterday, she really harped on that for a while yesterday about—how almost all of her persona, everything she said was orchestrated by someone else.
Amy goes on to say that one of the things she caught from her previous tune-in was how intelligent Marilyn was, how spiritual. Very wise. She says that she’s developed more after passing, but had that in life as well.
Amy: She’s much happier now.
Me: So I guess to start, is there anything she’s wanting to talk about?
Amy: I know she wants to talk about who she really was, who she is. She didn’t really go in with me yesterday about, um, what happened to her—except for one thing. She allowed me to feel, which I’ll go into that. So I know she’ll probably want to, since she showed me that yesterday, go into the end of her life. She also started showing me yesterday, um, which I didn’t get a full answer from so I want to go into that—about um, rape.
Amy: So I, um, I would like to find out more about that and who that was.
Me: Okay. And it’s interesting that we’re able to do this together because I do have a lot of knowledge about her life, so hopefully I’ll be able to answer some questions too. Or at least say yes, I’ve heard this or haven’t heard that.
Amy: So let’s start with you asking a question.
Me: Oh boy, me asking a question. Okay. Um. Let me think. I want it to be a good one if it’s the first one. I guess just, uh, how—did, did you ever come to peace with the fact that you weren’t able to have children?
Amy closes her eyes again.
Amy: So she’s telling me that when she first passed, that there was a lot of—and she’s using the word ‘time’ loosely—it was a process for her. Of, uh, really letting go of a lot of things, the bitterness. The unfairness. And that was one of them. She’s telling me now in a giggly, happy tone that she definitely gets her fill where she’s at. She, she has a lot of children around her there, and she works with children all the time that are in body—she visits and connects with, so she was able to deal with that. And she’s saying that it wasn’t easy at first, her process, of moving forward. And she’s showing me like, layers, of a tunnel, staying stuck in a space until she was ready to work through those things, then she goes to another layer. So her process was long, she’s saying. And she’s telling me in a lot of ways she’s still in process. And she’s telling me right now one of the reasons she hasn’t reincarnated or come back into body is because she’s still processing. Things. She’s still working on levels that she feels that she, because of who she was in that lifetime, which was not her first lifetime, and because of who she became … and the people who are connected to her today, there’s so much more on the plane of what she does is much more than what she could do if she came back into body.
Me: So I guess it’s like the acceptance stages of grief. Moving through … that.
Amy goes on to explain that time means something different on the other side—that time is irrelevant.
We move on to a new subject. I wrote a story in my debut collection Certain Dark Things that was inspired by Marilyn. Called “Got To Give,” it explores Marilyn entering a fortune teller’s shop with a request. Towards the end, it contains a brief scene that I dreamt one evening, just a flash of an image:
“When I was a little girl,” Norma Jeane said, her tone wavering, “I saw a stray dog dragging something into an alley. I thought it was a cat, you see, so I followed it, thinking maybe I could help. But it wasn’t a cat. It was one of those organ grinder monkeys. He was wearing a little hat, a little vest. He was screaming.”
She let out a humorless laugh.
“I wish someone had told me Hollywood was like that.”
Photo Credit: Josh McGinn / Flickr
As I begin to ask a question regarding that scene, Amy does a little motion near her ear with her finger and interrupts me.
Amy: She just said it was “superb!” Like that, very enthusiastic—“Superb!”
I’ve witnessed Amy getting the tone and inflection right of other people in the past and this was no different. I could practically hear Marilyn saying it. (Which, obviously, was a pretty big compliment.)
Me: Oh good! (laughing) I’m so glad! Was she sending me that image, is what I was wondering? Something she saw? Or is it just completely from my own head?
Amy closes her eyes.
Amy: She’s saying that is a memory. That she … she like, not implanted, but like … when you compress something to something and it makes an image? Imprinted! She basically, um, I actually see her kind of just going forward towards your third eye and just imprinting that memory into you. She’s definitely saying that’s a memory.
I found that very interesting. I go on to say that the idea for the story also came to me very quickly, all at once. Marilyn going to this fortune teller to ask for something dark and clandestine. Was this also from her? Was there any truth in the story?
Amy: Very similar. Not exact. There are … embellishments aren’t the right words, but things that aren’t factual in that story, but her emotional state was correct. The anger that she felt was correct. The, um, reaching out to people that she shouldn’t have reached out to, told things to because she was desperate … and she was angry. And she wanted to do whatever she could. She’s saying you got that 100% right.
Amy: But no one in her life could be trusted. No one. And so, there was no one that she could go to and get help from or support from or talk to about this because they were always watching.
Me: Wow. Okay.
Amy: She’s telling me at this point she didn’t even care that they were watching. That she … knew that she was being reckless. She didn’t care.
Me: Okay, so going down that thread a little farther, is she telling you who she did reach out to, or is it just the only people she could talk to were outsiders?
Amy: She’s saying that you were spot on with the type of person that she went to talk to. Uh, it was a name that was given to her. Supposed to be very discreet. And …
Amy’s eyes are closed again. She pauses for a minute or so.
Amy: A woman. But it wasn’t … for … conjuring up a spell or being read in any way. The woman took care of it, she’s saying.
Amy says this in a very sad, matter-of-fact sort of way. She knows what Marilyn is insinuating. I think I do too.
Me: Okay. Okay. So since we’ve gotten some stuff out there, is there anything she’s really wanting to talk about?
Amy: So right now she is … not saying anything. She’s just kind of letting me feel the last week or two weeks of her life. This woman was part of that. She’s telling me that she was aware that trouble was coming. She was used and dismissed and disposed of like a piece of trash. And was … treated like a whore, she’s telling me.
Amy’s speech here is very interesting. It seems like she’s truly feeling it. She’s hurt. She holds her hands together as if in prayer.
Amy: And her eyes were wide open at the end, where at the beginning of a certain relationship she believed that it was going to be more, that there would be deeper feelings and ties and she was well aware towards the end that she was viewed as … a you know, a game.
Me: A joke.
Amy: A joke. Thrown back and forth, just being tossed back and forth between people and … degraded. Some dark shit. Sexual. Um.
Amy closes her eyes and goes still again. At this point the call abruptly ends. Before I can do anything a call from Amy begins to ring, but when I answer, she still has her eyes closed and her hands together.
She opens her eyes.
Amy: Well that was interesting.
Me: I know! You got so still again and I didn’t know we’d lost connection!
Amy: A lot of emotion. That’s what caused that. I feel like there’s certain things she wants me to be careful about talking about too. I think that was her way of …
Me: Let’s take a step back?
Amy: Yeah. But she is sharing with me about “Happy Birthday.”
Me: I think that was supposed to be the first time they [Marilyn and JFK] met?
Amy shakes her head with a mischievous smile.
Amy: No. No. And … no. She’s shaking her head. That whole thing was orchestrated and set up. And she’s telling me that … that’s [the birthday dinner] kind of when she realized the downhill that it was going to because she said, even down to the way that she grabbed the microphone? She was TOLD what to do to make her more sexual. She keeps going back to that microphone grab, that she was specifically told, um, to grab it like … like she knew what to do with it.
I have since watched the clip again on YouTube and damn, she’s right.
Me: So it was a show for him [JFK.]
Amy: Yeah. She’s saying to me, what she realized, the play was … you know … here she is, being told what to do, encouraged to be that, and then he turns around—and she’s telling me—that he turned around and made it as if she’s just this very unwholesome sexual being. He knew exactly what he wanted her to be, and not just him, all of the people involved in it. There was a group of men she keeps showing me. About four or five men that just got their kicks off of … her being this sexual toy to them.
I’ve got my theories on this but I decide to wait it out.
Amy: The reason she has a slight with this night is she was pushed to be a certain way and then … treated like she is a whore, because she acted that way.
Me: So it was diversion, basically. Like, he ordered what he wanted, and then … had to spin it to where it was she was the one coming on to him. Or she wasn’t even just coming on to him, necessarily, she’s just LIKE that.
Amy: Right. She’s just LIKE that. She’s also saying there’s a reason the First Lady was not there.
Me: With the group of men, I do have an idea about that, and I think it has something to do with something you brought up earlier, which was the—the rape. Um. Does she want to talk about that, or do we want to do something else?
Amy closes her eyes again. My computer begins to emit a strange clicking sound.
Amy: She’s actually telling me she was sexually assaulted more than once at different times in her life. The first being before the beginning of her career, as a teenager. And then she’s telling me if you want to know how she became addicted to substances, it’s because she was given them. And passed around like … a rag doll.
Me: Okay. Like, when she was younger, or when she was in her career?
Amy In her career. Like, being invited to a party of powerful men that she first thought was going to as the guest of someone, and because he was interested in her, and because they have a thing—and it ends up that she’s given things, and is completely out of it, got unconscious, completely out of it, and she is telling me that she—(sigh)—she just wanted to please. She just—her self esteem was so beaten down to nothing. And … she … takes responsibility for going along with things. That she thought would make someone happy.
Amy is on the verge of tears explaining this. I’m close too—I get that feeling, 100%.
While this is absolutely tragic ground we’re treading, I know what she’s talking about. This is the theory I mentioned earlier. Years back, there was a little-known rumor that a sex tape existed from a party at Frank Sinatra’s place. In it, numerous men were assaulting a barely-conscious Marilyn. No evidence of the footage ever arose.
Amy: She’s also saying that the sexual attention had become like a drug to her. That it was the only way she felt like she could be loved or accepted. No one was interested in anything other than that. She—she craved it, and wanted it. It wasn’t that she didn’t want it. It was her language is what she’s telling me, the only way she knew how to receive love.
My computer has begun to click again.
We move on. I ask about Marilyn’s trip to England to film The Prince And The Showgirl, a notoriously rough time in her life.
Amy: She says she felt very alone. She’s trying to explain there’s so many—exciting things that would happen in life, new experiences, and she could be surrounded by all … this … and people … and feel so, utterly alone. And she’s telling me that is the saddest part of that lifetime. Is … how many experiences she had, good and bad, that she CONSTANTLY felt like another person was experiencing. She felt like… there were two people, and there was the one that was tangible and experiencing and talking and doing this, and then there was this person inside of her that… no one even acknowledged. No one knew. No one cared about. No one WANTED to know or see.
Ahh, yes. Norma Jeane VS Marilyn Monroe. “Do you want to see me be her?”
We move on.
Amy: I want to ask her if she wants to into something I started feeling yesterday, it was the end of her life when she actually passed away.
Amy closes her eyes and frowns a little.
Amy: So she was talking about to me, she was saying something I didn’t quite understand at first that was about feeling, um, feeling it move through her branches? And I said “Branches? What do you mean?” And then she let me feel it yesterday. And I just felt, um, this warmth go through my veins. Just move through. My veins. And so I asked her what that was about, and this is, you know… so she was given an injection. And she literally felt, as it moved through her, and she died.
Me: And was it something that was given to her voluntarily? Or against her will?
Amy: Against her will.
Me: Does she know who?
Amy: She knows who was responsible for it, but the person she did it, she doesn’t … male. Completely covered. There was no, um, couldn’t see the face. Hands. Everything was covered. And part of the reason that was able to happen was that, um, she’d gotten so bad towards the end—for numerous reasons, she’s telling me, she was already altered. Already out of it. Um. Lethargic, slow. She’d been crying, a lot, she’s telling me. And… so… when that happened, there was no way she could have fought that off or defended herself whatsoever. But it was 100% to… extinguish her. Because, she was a loose cannon. At that time. For some people.
Me: Um, was she going through anything at the time? Pregnancy-related, or miscarriage-related?
Amy: Unfortunately. Abortion. She is telling me that is the woman she went to see. The name she was given to take care of certain things.
Me: Wow. Oh. Okay. Discreet, that makes sense. Hm. Does she want to say why?
Amy: Why did she get an abortion? “When someone like that tells you to get an abortion, you get an abortion.”
Jesus. I mean, it all makes sense, but seriously. Just wow. I don’t have to explain that to you, right?
I go back to the theory about the sex tape and the connection it could potentially have to JFK.
Me: There’s supposedly … footage. From that party you mentioned. Is any of that true?
Amy: There was film.
Me: Okay, does she know if that exists, or—
Amy: No. She’s saying that has been destroyed, because, well, the reason being it ties her back to … the reason it was done is because, it wasn’t done as, there WAS some kink factor involved in it but also as, um, leverage. Over her opening her mouth, running her mouth, because it would’ve destroyed her career. If she stepped outside of line. Even though they wouldn’t have done it, because that would have ruined THEM as well. What she’s saying is that they thought her to be dumb enough to find that as a threat, as if they would actually go forward leaking that. With it incriminating them too.
We move on to the group of men being discussed. I was previously unaware of Kennedy and Frank Sinatra being friends but I threw in Dean Martin as an option as well. Amy said yes to Kennedy and Sinatra, no on Dean Martin. Amy attempts to look into the other two.
Here’s where it gets really freaky.
Amy: She’s showing me a face of someone I don’t recognize. A man. And she’s telling me there’s a man even more powerful than Jack. And understand that he was his own puppet as she was a puppet. That’s one way that she felt a connection with him is because he was just as controlled as she was. In her world.
So, in a strange twist of fate, I had recently been watching the Hulu original 11.22.63. While the story itself is fiction, real people from history are involved in the storyline. As soon as Amy says she doesn’t recognize this man I’m opening my browser to do some quick googling. She begins to describe him and before she gets too far I’m almost positive I know who it is—someone who was involved in the CIA.
Amy: 50s. Maybe a little older? 50s to 60s. Broad face. Square. Dark hair. Not handsome. Beady eyes.
Holy. Shit. Get a load of this guy. Who is that you might ask? That’s George de Mohrenschildt, someone I previously had no knowledge of prior to watching 11.22.63. It’s widely believed that he was involved with the CIA and had a big hand in orchestrating the assassination of none other than JFK. And he fits that description pretty darn well, wouldn’t you say?
Me: Does George ring a bell?
Right away Amy nods.
Amy: Yes. That’s it, she’s saying yes.
I send a picture through Skype. Amy visibly reacts.
Amy: Oh my god yes. Yes. That’s him. Who IS that? Every hair on my body is standing up! Oh boy. That is, um. Who IS this?
I begin to read from de Mohrenschildt’s Wikipedia page, describing him as a geologist and professor who befriended Lee Harvey Oswald in the summer of 1962. Amy covers her face with her hands. I explain that according to 11.22.63, if the popular theory is correct, that “Oswald is the bullet, de Mohrenschildt is the gun, and the CIA is who pulled the trigger.”
Amy: She’s telling me, though, he played her. Because he was a trusted confidante of Jack’s. He … infiltrated and controlled that world. He was supposed to be … a protector. And friend.
I do some more googling. Holy shit.
Me: Okay, so in September of 1976, the CIA requested the FBI locate de Mohrenschildt because he had attempted to contact the CIA director. He had written a letter to the director—who, at the time, was the first Bush—asking for assistance. “You will excuse this handwritten letter. Maybe you will be able to bring a solution to the hopeless situation I find myself in. My wife and I find ourselves surrounded by vigilantes, our phone bugged, we are being followed everywhere.” Eventually he was committed to a mental institution. Stated he saw visions, heard voices. He was asked to speak before the house about a committee on assassinations—
Amy: She’s actually telling me that he is the one that they went to, to get rid of her.
Me: To orchestrate it or carry it out himself?
Amy: To orchestrate it.
Me: So he was just that kind of guy.
Amy: Yes. He played that role for several different people who needed to be taken care of. He was a “double” is what she keeps saying to me. Meaning that he played … and it’s that “double” that drove him at the end of his life to not trust anything or anyone. He told Jack, “You need to get rid of her now while you can.”
Wow. I mean, we’ve already covered so much. How Marilyn became addicted, how she was discarded, who orchestrated her murder. And there’s so much left that I didn’t even include here.
At some point, Amy informs me that Marilyn considers herself a sort of spirit guide for women who don’t feel self love or self esteem. Who have trouble loving themselves as she once did. Well, that explains my affinity for her.
After almost an hour and a half, I bring the session to a close. Amy looks visibly tired and I don’t want to wear out my welcome in Marilyn’s world, so to speak.
Me: Well, is there anything else that you or she would like to address?
For the last time in our session, Amy closes her eyes and becomes still.
Amy: The key points that she wants expressed are, um, the specific points about her nature and the struggles that she had with everyone controlling her, and making it known and aware that she was not the person that she portrayed herself to be. And she’s well aware, she takes responsibility for that, but it’s not how she was inside. She really wants to hone in on the message towards women, men too, everyone on this planet of — the importance of being okay with who you are. And valuing that and loving that. And not to allow anyone to come along and manipulate that. Make it into something that it’s not for their benefit. Touch on self esteem, she’s saying.
She wants it known that she did not kill herself. She’s saying that’s neither here nor there, she actually is saying that had that not happened to her that might’ve been the route that would’ve happened. Because she was so unhappy. And so alone. And addicted. And… it’s not, she doesn’t take up this big flag of “I want people to know I was murdered!” because in her heart she feels that probably going down the road, she probably would have accidentally done it anyway. Or just let herself get so far gone that it would’ve become a reality. She DOES want George nailed. She’s using the word “nailed.”
Amy: And she also wants it understood that the President (as she keeps calling him) was a victim of his own circumstances. The same way she was. So was he. And I feel a great compassion in her heart for him. She was in love with him. He was a special person, despite everything he did that was NOT, he himself, his heart was special.
She takes a moment to pause, then adds this.
Amy: This is going to be up to your discretion, but she doesn’t want it to be another focus on her life struggles and everything. She knows that has to be part of it, the whole story has to be part of it. She wants to make sure the lesson is what’s hounded on, how you’re going to present it. Because that’s what she’s worked so hard to come to the end of. It has everything to do with self love and acceptance. You will find your way to express that. And she will help you.
This is a haunting echo to one of Marilyn’s last interviews, where she plead with the interviewer: “Please don’t make me a joke. End the interview with what I believe.”
Wow. What an incredible first session in our series. It was truly an amazing thing to experience. Again, whether you believe what happened was real or not is up to you. But I came away from the session with something very valuable, and it was what Marilyn seemed most emphatic to express: love yourself. Don’t let other people define you. Be who you truly are.
I get it Marilyn. And I sure will try.
Photos: Wikimedia Commons; Wikipedia; Wikipedia; Wikipedia; Wikipedia; Josh McGinn / Flickr [CC]; Wikipedia; Still from "The Prince and the Showgirl" via Warner Bros.; Wikipedia; Wikimedia Commons; Wikipedia